You're almost there. Don't push.
You're the closest. Don't push yet, don't push.
You're almost there though.
Don't push. Breathe. Just breathe. It's almost over.
You're not quite there.
You have a little while. You're not there. Calm, calm.
You're almost there.
Breathe. You're close, just breathe.
I can't!
I can see the head.
Sweetheart, look at me. One last push!
That's it. It's here! It's here.
My baby!
- Your son is here, Natalie. - Oh, my God!
He's so beautiful!
It's almost time.
Push! You're fully dilated.
Push! Push it now!
Again!
Hold still, you can do this!
- You're fully dilated. Push! - I know!
All right. I'm gonna help you.
This is gonna hurt for one moment.
Get it out!
- What're you trying do to? - I'm gonna do it for you!
Push!
- I hate you! - It's coming.
- I hate you! - The head is coming out. Push!
It's coming.
You did it. The baby!
- Oh, my God. Oh, my God! Push! - What?
Second's in...
- You have twins. - What?
You had two babies.
- Hold your baby, Staci. - I don't want to see it.
- Hold your baby, Staci. - No! No!
Dr. Wise, I'm in so much pain that I'm nauseous!
The girls are so peaceful!
Oh, why does it hurts so much? Something's wrong!
These babies have been such a curse.
It's impossible.
- Impossible. - What? What's impossible?
It can't be.
You're...
You're pregnant.
No! No, it can't be. That's impossible. It can't be.
Oh, yes. It can be.
When you're in hell.
I died on the operating table at the abortion clinic.
I committed suicide.
Welcome to your eternity, Dr. Wise, Staci.
Prepare for another nine months.
Well?
You're the foreman.
It's up to you to get things moving.
Okay, I'll do a count.
Uh... You guys good with hands, show of hands?
- Sure. - Why not?
- Shall I write this on a pad? - Yeah.
Look, we all know they're guilty.
They kidnapped the girl.
So, let's just vote and get this over with.
All right, fine.
Raise your hands if you say guilty.
Okay, that's 11 for guilty. Not guilty?
Not guilty? Are you serious?
I can't deal with this today.
I've got a major business dinner at seven.
It's pretty clear to the rest of us.
Did everyone really think this through?
Or are you just deciding based on emotion?
What's to think through? We have confessions!
That's a luxury in most criminal cases.
Not only confessions,
but we have a video tape of the actual crime.
For seven months, 24 hours a day,
they filmed themselves.
Which jury gets that kind of evidence?
I thought through this case during the entire trial.
All the while watching
the hours of footage of their crime,
and listening to their testimony.
I don't need to think about it anymore.
Oh, what's there to think about, really?
I mean, the law is the law.
We had plenty of time to think about this
and we're all in agreement. Except you.
- Why is it so cold in here? - Yeah, it's freezing.
Thank God I wore this sweater.
Can we call somebody to come fix the heat?
Our tax dollars at work, right? You know, you'd think
that the government could at least afford
to heat their own buildings.
I'll take a look.
Look, I'll call a bailiff
and have him call maintenance, all right?
Let's just get back to the vote, people.
Let's hope we're out of here soon.
It won't even matter.
Well, we don't have a unanimous decision yet,
so, looks like we're not going anywhere.
Look, everyone.
I'm not saying that you didn't think about what you heard.
I'm just raising the logical question.
Are you saying guilty out of emotion?
Or because you truly believe legally
and morally that they are guilty?
All right, let's just think about
this thing for a minute, okay? Let's talk this out.
Does anyone have anything to say?
Honey, why don't you just tell us what you're thinking,
so we... So we all understand?
Yeah, maybe we can help you out of your confusion,
and you can realize that they are guilty.
Since we've had our minds made up,
why don't we try to explain to her our thought processes?
We are in majority. We have to convince her.
It's a good idea. Why don't we go around the table
and see what everyone has to say?
Anybody want to start?
We might as well go in order.
No, I'm the foreman, so, I'll go last,
but you are number two, why don't you start?
You know, there's a reason courtrooms
have that justice statue with a blindfold, right?
It's because justice is based on facts
and the facts are, they are guilty.
We have videotape and confessions.
What more do you want?
I know what the facts are,
and I know how it looks to the people in this room,
but I am saying that they are not guilty
because I believe the law says so.
Maybe they were justified?
What, now you're with her?
I'm just asking a question.
You saw Staci's two children, the twins, testify.
They'd be dead if Dr. Wise
and the others didn't kidnap Staci.
Not born.
- Huh? - They're not dead.
They're just not yet born. There's a huge difference.
Are you crazy?
Staci Horowitz wanted to have an abortion
two months into her pregnancy,
and she had a legal right to do so.
And these maniacs kidnapped her,
making her stay in a place
that was probably colder than in here.
For seven months, they incarcerated her,
and they played mind games with the poor girl.
Christ! They even tried to make her think
she was in hell after she gave birth!
Come on, you two. Get your senses together.
You can't hold us up here.
It's like you're kidnapping us right now.
I just asked a question, all right?
I'm not holding anything up.
He made a good point about just how purposeful
and plotting these people were.
Those are the kind of things the prosecutor talked about.
They planned the kidnapping form months.
They rehearsed and rehearsed.
Tried to manipulate Ms. Horowitz.
There's tons of footage.
You should be able to find something
that shows plotting and manipulation.
I'm one step ahead of you.
I didn't say that they didn't plan it out.
- I'm just saying we should... - Here.
Watch this again.
No, no, no, no!
You were all on the operating table.
All ready to commit murder.
And now, your babies will be given life,
just as God planned.
You're nuts. You kidnapped us!
Lara, the strongest of the three.
Strong has nothing to do with my anger.
You violated my most precious of constitutional rights!
What about the child's rights? God's rights?
Please, stop the craziness.
Maybe, she's right. What about the child's rights?
I was pressured into this by Brandon.
I appreciate the support, Natalie,
but you shouldn't slam Brandon.
You're an adult woman. You made the choice.
Come here, child.
You decided to kill your baby.
Brandon couldn't make you, could he?
Don't be weak, Natalie. This is a cult.
Fanatics! You're a throwback to 50 years ago
with all this radical Christianity!
Your goal is to discriminate against women.
I am a woman.
Don't use your femininity as a crutch.
You stand for nothing about gender equality,
when you want to take away our most basic freedom.
Looks as if I was wrong, Staci is the strongest.
I don't care about who's the strongest,
and I don't care about this stupid political debate!
I'm gonna get to the point. What do you want from us?
Lara, the typical lawyer.
What do you want from us?
Not want...
demand. You will stay here,
in this room, for the next seven months,
until you all simultaneously give birth to your children.
I... I still can't believe that she was part of the kidnapping.
- Who? Dr. Wise or Lara Foley? - Lara Foley.
She just seemed so authentic.
Yeah, so did Natalie.
Hey! They all confessed.
They're right wing nuts. They're like terrorists.
Instead of training with machine guns and bombs,
they trained in acting.
They spent months getting into their characters,
and going over some "loose script", as they called it.
But there was so much that couldn't have been scripted.
In fact, most of it.
It was a general idea, get it?
I can take out that silly church doctor.
Lara? Lara?
The three of us can easily eliminate her.
You don't know what's behind that door or who.
There could be no one. There probably is no one.
All we've seen is that woman, and the suit on the TV.
And what if there are more out there?
Don't you get it? They're not gonna hurt us.
They can't hurt us because they won't hurt the babies.
She is a scared little girl, but you and I are women.
Come on.
I'm scared too and what if that fence is real?
I'll try to cross it.
Look, I know you're frightened,
terrified and I know that you feel guilty about the abortion,
but you're just buying into their propaganda.
They're brainwashing us.
I really do think that what I was about to do was wrong.
You weren't doing anything wrong!
Let's say we eliminate Dr. Wise
and there's no one else here with her.
Then we're home free.
Maybe, maybe there's a phone or computer
and we can contact help.
- Yeah. - But maybe not.
And you try to run into the snow, desert,
wilderness, wherever the hell we are,
and you pass out.
Natalie and I can't help you for the same reason.
We can't help you because we'd pass out trying.
Yes, and then you'll die in the snow and so will your baby.
My baby?
I don't have a baby, you stupid little girl!
I don't have anything inside of me
I that even remotely resembles a human being!
And neither do you, nor does Lara!
Staci, I agree with you.
There's gonna be a lot of brainwashing going on here.
I got to say I'm pretty impressed with the performances.
I mean, these girls definitely seem like kidnap victims to me.
But they weren't! We've got confessions, remember?
And they all testified,
right in front of us at trial admitting their damn atrocities.
Calm down, man. You don't act to the foreman that way.
I just want to understand what we're wasting time here for.
They're all obviously guilty.
Robert Lation, Dr. Victoria Wise, Lara Foley,
and that young girl, Natalie Fields.
All guilty of kidnapping Staci Horowitz.
I don't see how anyone can disagree.
It's the most open and shut case I've ever seen.
You're correct.
They've told the police they kidnapped her
and they've told us.
And they had surveillance cameras up 24/7
for the entire seven months, so, we can see the entire show.
I don't have seven months to watch the whole show, okay?
I think we saw enough of it at trial.
It's not a show. It's a kidnapping.
It's a terrible crime against that poor woman.
You're right, of course. It was no Broadway play.
Look, I attended for a year
at a law school before I changed my mind
and went to medical school.
Criminal law 101 says
that we have to look for mens rea. The intent.
They all had the intent to commit this crime.
So, it's up to us to convict them.
You are all talking about their intent and their planning.
Look at why they planned this.
Their purpose was to prevent Staci
from aborting her children.
Roe V. Wade has not been reversed.
She has the right to have an abortion. It's still legal.
Are you saying it's okay to commit crimes
to keep people from doing things you don't agree with?
Imagine our society if everybody acted that way.
Whoa, whoa, hold on a second. Do you have kids?
Yes. Why?
Wouldn't you do anything you could
to stop somebody trying to hurt your kids?
I mean, even if it meant risking getting arrested
and getting charged with assault or something?
I would, no question. Who wouldn't?
So, how does that make these defendants justified?
Wait a minute, there is a huge difference here.
I love my kids and I would do anything for them,
but they are actually in this world. They are alive.
When she was kidnapped, Staci Horowitz's children,
they were not even born yet.
Yeah, you're saying it's okay to commit crimes
to protect people that don't exist?
What do you mean, "don't exist"?
Her children were very much alive inside her womb.
You're telling me that you consider them
children at that point?
They... They were fetuses, masses of cells.
At two months, they weren't even developed.
They're not even human
That's incorrect. They were quite developed.
By the time Staci realized she was pregnant,
her children's brains were developing.
By the time she was kidnapped,
the babies had arms and legs,
and fingers and looked like actual babies.
But really, it doesn't even matter
what they look like at that point.
From the moment of conception, they were human lives.
Lives worth saving.
No, no, they weren't. They were basically tissue.
No, no, you're incorrect about that.
They were definitely lives at the point of conception.
They were alive. No one can argue that.
Alive, lives, yes. But not human beings.
Hold on, he just made a good point.
The fetuses are lives. What are they if they're not human lives?
- Not lions or tigers or bears. - Oh, my!
- It's not just a big joke. - Thanks, man
I think we should take another vote.
Shouldn't the foreman decide that?
Well, I think anyone can call for a vote.
This is getting more ridiculous by the second.
We're gonna be stuck in this freezing room all night.
Did anyone ever call the bailiff
so we can get maintenance in here?
No. Because this juror has kept us
locked in her baseless dialog,
while everyone knows that each and everyone
of these defendants are guilty.
I called for a vote.
All right, let's take a vote.
Can we do this by secret ballot? So, no one feels intimidated?
I don't see why not.
Here, why don't you rip this to pieces so we can vote.
Good idea.
This damn thing is stuck on 58 degrees.
The levers won't move no matter how hard I try.
Hey, hey, don't break it.
They probably'll make us pay for it if we break it.
Why don't you come here and vote and then we'll call the bailiff.
Thank you.
Someone just pass it on to him.
- Now, take it easy, guys. - It's cold in here.
Just hurry it up.
- All right, is that everybody? - Yeah.
Guilty.
- Not guilty. - Well, there's your vote.
- Not guilty. - What?
I'm never gonna make it to my meeting.
Excuse me, I don't care about your meeting.
I want to hear the rest of the results.
Whatever! We know whose vote that was anyway, don't we?
Guilty.
Not guilty.
That's nine guilty and three not guilty.
Who's the third not guilty?
You? The one who's suddenly trying to tell us
that fetuses are human lives?
We didn't know who the second vote was, much less the third.
This was a secret ballot, remember?
Wrong! We know exactly who the second not guilty vote is.
Oh, excuse me! I don't like you standing over me like that.
I don't appreciate your know-it-all attitude.
So, you're denying you voted not guilty?
All right, I'm gonna have to intercede here as the foreman.
Oh, hurray, hurray!
You're finally doing your job!
Now, could you please try to convince
these imbeciles to do what's right?
Hey, you, tough guy.
I'm starting to get a little sick of you.
And you too, for that matter.
You don't call anyone in here imbeciles or any other names
just because they disagree with you.
Yeah, okay, whatever. Why don't you sit down?
Turn around and be a man! Look at me!
Hey, stop fighting! Fighting is not gonna solve anything.
All right, that's enough!
Okay, now, we need to have some type of order in here.
And that's my job as the foreman, is to keep the order.
Not to change people's opinions.
Well, guess what? Knock, knock. Who's there?
- I'm the third not guilty. - Oh, my God!
You! Why?
I just thought about my kid
and my kid not being alive and that thought's unbearable.
Look, if my wife tried to have an abortion,
I'd hire someone to kidnap her
if I was thinking about this in some retrospective way.
I just can't imagine my daughter not being alive.
But kidnapping is not permitted by law.
I don't know if it is or isn't permitted.
I don't care. Not guilty.
Oh, my gosh! Do you see what you've started?
People don't care about following the law now.
Well, isn't that what should be the focus here? The law?
I believe you're talking about
what you perceive to be the law of God.
Maybe.
Remember the expert report in the charts on fetal development?
And the way the babies looked after they were aborted?
Aborted at all different stages of life.
With their heads crushed,
and their tiny little arms and legs dismembered.
That's a bloody mess of human body parts.
Perhaps we should have someone bring in the photographs
and the charts so we can go over them?
No! Oh, Christ!
We remember. We don't need to go over it again.
Would anyone like to see them?
I think we can just talk it out.
Discuss the medicine and the biology of the fetuses.
Just discuss it, right?
When the fetus is about an inch big,
that's when most abortions take place.
Do you consider that a human life?
They are human lives from the moment of conception. Period.
When a sperm fertilizes an egg, it creates unique DNA.
And that is the blueprint for a unique human being.
The original cell that's created is a human being
already male or female father.
With genes from the mother and father.
From that point on, it's a matter of development.
So, at any point after conception,
if that human life is harmed, a crime is being committed
Your passion equals your ignorance.
And that isn't name calling.
I'm just trying to educate you, young lady.
Simply, it's not a human life at conception
nor for sometime afterward.
It's as I stated before, just a mass of cells.
In layman's term, it can't see, it can't touch,
it can't walk, and it can't think.
Do you consider that a human being?
It's just aggregation of cells.
So what if it's one cell? It's alive, isn't it?
It has the DNA for a human, not a horse,
or a fish, or monkey, right?
So, it's a human life.
I would not consider that the point where life begins.
Well, then, where is the point where life begins?
- You're asking me? - I'm asking anyone or everyone.
You know, they talked about this in the videos.
Let's go back to the footage first
so I can see what they said.
They were watching the guys on TV
and that one guy was eating deviled eggs and talking.
While he is looking for the right DVD,
can someone please call the maintenance guy?
It's freezing in here.
My teeth are chattering
and I haven't even finished paying for them yet.
Damn!
I just have the judge's extension which is 1225.
So, ready to admit you are the other not guilty vote?
It was a secret ballot.
You know what?
Here's something public for you. I'm changing my vote.
I'm not guilty.
This is just unbelievable!
What?
This is just unbelievable! Staci Horowitz was kidnapped.
She was taken from her family and her friends
and her life for seven months.
Look, she can change her vote if she wants. It's her right.
Exactly, but let's just be on track here, please.
It is our duty and our right
to convince each other to follow the law.
And I think if we discuss this under the scope of the law,
maybe we can bring these fallen angels back on the right side.
Okay, our fallen angels are now juror number seven, of course.
Uh, six.
Two and...
So, we're not doing the secret ballot anymore?
Apparently not.
All right, I was the fourth not guilty vote.
- I knew it. - Number ten.
Okay, so let's get into some of this logic.
This has the actual discussion
about when a fetus becomes a human life. Let's take a look.
Well, exactly what relevance does this make
that the defendant can legally
keep Staci Horowitz against her will?
It means everything. Legally.
Obviously, abortion at any time is evil.
Obviously, but what do you care?
I don't.
But I have to have good answers to smart position points.
Okay. Let's work though one.
Sure. I'll be the pro-life goody two-shoes
and you can be the pro-choice self-interested baby-killer.
Splendid.
And I'll play it like I'm a thoughtful pro-choice person
who has a clear line drawn on when abortion should be legal.
All right.
Would you murder a baby one minute after it was born?
Of course not.
One second after it was born?
No. How could I? It's a human baby.
But you would abort a baby one second before it was born.
Because at that point, it's not a human life yet, right?
- No, I couldn't. - A minute before it was born?
- No. - One day before birth?
- Come on. - A week?
Ten days before?
No, it's human being at that point.
One month before the baby is born?
You would surely kill it then?
Well...
Is it 45 days before the baby is born?
Two months before the baby's born?
When does this mass of cells
magically transform into a human being?
- Three months. - Okay. At three months,
the fetus is magically transformed
into a human being. One day before that?
It was worthless. Worthy to have its skull crushed
and sucked from the mother's body by a vacuum.
One day before and everything magically changes?
Well?
Well, probably most of us wouldn't agree
with an abortion when it is close to the end,
but I think it's open to interpretation
about when it's considered a baby.
I think when it can actually live on its own.
You obviously didn't listen to the experts during the trial.
Because if you had, you'd know that that theory
is always changing based on advances in medicine.
In 1973, when Roe V. Wade was decided,
a baby couldn't live outside the mother
any earlier than six months.
So, in 1973, five month old fetuses weren't human beings.
Therefore, abortionists could just blast their brains
to smithereens and kill them like a house fly.
But today, since the babies can survive
outside the womb at five months,
they're all of a sudden human beings.
That doesn't make any sense. They were always human beings.
There's got to be something in the law we can use as guidance.
Does anyone actually know what the law states about that?
Oh, remember, we can ask the judge questions,
so, why don't we just do that?
Sure, let's just waste more time.
Yeah, we have nothing better to do.
Don't be rude. I think we should definitely call the judge.
While you are at it,
can you ask him about the freezing temperatures in here?
I spoke to the secretary.
She said a maintenance worker would be here soon.
Hello?
Uh, yes, it's the foreman in the
Robert Lation, Victoria Wise and Lara...
- The abortion case? - Yeah, yeah, the abortion case.
Okay, so, how can I help you?
Well, we got a question here for the judge.
Sure, what is it? I'll pass it on to him.
Is there any law that says what constitutes a human life?
I mean, like, if there's a baby, a fet...
If there's something growing inside of a woman?
Sounds like a well thought out question.
I'll ask Judge Solomon.
"Something that's growing inside of a woman"?
Let's just be honest here.
It's a human life no matter what you try to argue.
It's not matter of opinion. It's scientific fact.
Let's revisit the charts on fetal development.
Hello, jury members.
Oh, well, this isn't usual judicial protocol.
I've decided to stop by and answer your question personally.
Usually, the bailiff just, you know,
brings me notes, I send those back, but,
well, I'm a regular guy, just like all of you, so,
why not answer your questions in person?
I'd just be sitting in my office reading some boring legal text
or...
...watching The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
That's a good movie.
So, to answer your question, if a person shoots a pregnant woman
in the stomach, or the face for that matter,
and the baby, or the fetus dies along with her...
that person is guilty of a double homicide.
But is the fetus considered a human life under the law?
And we're still freezing in here, Your Honor!
The fact that the unborn child
is taken into consideration in a case like this
means that the fetus is indeed
considered a human being according to the law.
You know, I think I'm gonna change my vote.
What? Just like that? Without examining the law?
No, not just like that.
That video that Dr. Wise had Staci watch,
it made a whole lot of sense.
Nobody can say the point at which
a fetus magically transforms into a human being.
Is it an hour before birth? A week? A month?
Three months? Who knows?
They're just way too much risk
that we're killing a human being.
And like the judge said,
if a pregnant woman is murdered, the fetus dies,
that constitutes a double homicide
and I think based on that
the law dictates that the fetus does constitute human life.
All right, let's vote again. Um, let's do not guilty first.
So, five for not guilty. What about guilty?
Wait a minute. You, Mr. Foreman,
you didn't raise your hand for either.
He's right. Well, sir, what's your vote?
As you said, you're the one who's been charged
with being in control here, keeping things orderly.
This is not setting a good example.
You're correct. This has just gotten difficult.
- It's not difficult to me. - Certainly not to me!
Some of you have just gone completely off the deep end
because of this radical, little Christian girl here.
I've my own mind, all right?
Now, she might have made a few good points
which others built on,
and the judge with his few words solidified,
but, for me, it was this young lady.
Me?
Yes, ma'am. You.
You have succinctly summarized it. At least, for me.
So, I have to change my vote to not guilty.
I don't believe this. I'm gonna push back my business meeting.
What is so important about this business meeting?
You keep talking about it. What is so important about it?
None of your business. Do you like that? Huh? Huh?
That's a double entendre.
I'm using business in two different ways.
You're acting like a moron.
Let's go back to what we were doing before, okay?
Going around the table
and each giving our argument about why they are guilty.
There was so much clarity when we walked out of that courtroom
and first walked into this room.
Very true. I believe if we can actually focus
on the law of kidnapping itself,
this can become very simple again.
And you, or some of you,
who have changed your vote to not guilty
will go back very quickly to guilty.
Even me? Who was never at guilty?
It seems that you have a special understanding
of the law, my dear.
I hope that the legal reasons
shed some light on you and your way of thinking.
There is a light at the end of this tunnel
and I believe that you will ultimately see it.
Can we disband the light analogies?
I believe I'm next.
Given that only juror number two had spoken
when we were presenting our arguments in a systematic,
organized manner.
Well said! Let's get a move on this.
They are guilty
because they have violated Staci's basic rights
to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.
They took away her way of life as she knew it, and liberty.
Forget liberty, she was stuck in a room for seven months!
Now, let's take an exact look at what Robert Lation,
the ringleader of the kidnapping...
had to say about his role in it.
Do not speak. Do not say a word.
You not only have the right to remain silent...
...you will remain silent while I speak. Understood?
- Yes. - I said remain silent.
Now, you're probably wondering who I am.
The same as you wondering
who the other women are who're standing with you.
Same as you're wondering where you are,
the same as you're wondering why you are where you are.
You have all committed a terrible sin.
Ah, Ms. Posey, you're the first to realize.
Think of me as a member of the criminal justice system.
Unfortunately for you, I'm not a lawyer.
Nor I am the police, nor a prosecutor
and alas, I'm not the judge.
No, I'm not your judge, ladies.
I am... your jailer.
Calls himself their jailer.
Under the law, if you jail someone against her will,
you're guilty of kidnapping.
- It's as clear as that. - Of course, it is. Great point.
These girls, they weren't even allowed to speak
unless they were given permission.
- Girl. - Huh?
Girl. Singular, remember?
Staci Horowitz, who was kidnapped.
Lara Posey and Laura Fields were a part of the crime.
I know, that's right. I... Yes.
These girls were just pretending to be in this hell with her.
Oh, please. Cry me a river! This was barely hell.
Staci was fed well, clothed, she had medical care
and she wasn't in a freezing room like this.
At least they had heat.
You want to see hell?
Come to my empty bed every night. Now, that's hell!
Please, don't diminish what happened to her.
She was held captive for seven months.
You know, comfortable accommodations or not.
Well, let's also get all the facts straight.
Robert Lation was the only one they had to ask permission
to speak, and he wasn't around that often.
Other than him,
they were allowed to speak freely at all times.
In fact, they were encouraged to have
thoughtful discussions about abortion.
Both pro-life and pro-choice.
This tells us a lot.
Before we go any further,
I want you all to really understand a few things.
Yes. We certainly want to change your minds.
But we know we can't do that by shoving things down your throat.
So, you will just be watching movies and documentaries,
reading books, hearing experts speak.
You'll hear opinions on both sides of the coin.
From everyone and everyone.
And then we'll have an opportunity to do something
that no one really ever has.
We'll have an abortion think-tank
for the next seven months.
Oh, yes.
Nonstop discussions and probably arguments
on the wholly important topic of abortion.
If your minds are changed, we've had a huge bonus.
If not, that most important primary goal has still been met.
Natalie, Lara, Staci, look at me.
We will never hurt you. I promise you.
As soon as your babies are born, you'll all be freed.
We should be taking away
two important things from that segment.
First, we should be having the same
thoughtful discussion about abortion.
Just as Dr. Wise said,
discussing both sides of the coin
so we can really understand what's at stake here.
And, second, right from the beginning,
she told Staci that she wouldn't be harmed
and that she would be freed as soon as she gave birth
and that's exactly what happened.
Staci was freed right after she delivered her babies
and she was never harmed.
Honey, there are many different kinds of harm.
Having your liberty restrained constitutes harm under the law.
As for psychological harm, here, we'll look at this now.
The three of you already had your chance to choose life. Hmm.
And you failed.
You were told earlier that you're gonna stay with Dr. Wise
until you give birth and that will never change.
Dr. Wise?
Should you have any thoughts of escape,
you should know that you are hundreds of miles
- from any other people. - Where are we?
Young lady, kindly understand
that you're never to speak when I'm with you,
unless I specifically give you permission!
Dr. Wise.
Lift up the back of your hair.
Touch high up on your neck. You have bandages there
where I have implanted small electronic devices.
It was minor laser surgery,
but nonetheless a necessary procedure
to ensure that we meet that primary goal.
Now, Staci, do you have a question? Just one, please.
What are these electronic devices supposed to do to us?
That's a good question. Dr. Wise.
Under the unlikely circumstances
that you should escape this building
into the frost-bitten cold of night in your little nightgown,
you will pass out within ten feet of the door.
Any of you have a dog?
You have one of those invisible electronic fences
that are in your yard or under the ground?
No. But you all understand
how the invisible electronic fences work?
Zip! The dog get stung if it passes the fence.
Dr. Wise.
Well, you won't get stung. But you will pass out.
Of course, the baby won't be harmed
as a low voltage electronic impulse
will release a harmless anesthetic into your bloodstream
that will temporarily cause you to lose consciousness
and then we'll retrieve you from the snow.
Enjoy the accommodations.
Under the law, I'm sure you'll all agree
that implanting an electronic device in someone's head
which could cause them to be rendered unconscious is harmful.
Again, good point.
You both are missing something here that's critical.
Dr. Wise never implanted the device in Stacy Horowitz.
After her release, she was examined by several doctors,
and all their medical reports came back negative
for any surgeries performed on her.
The fact is, it was just a scare tactic.
Yes. But that scare tactic
equates harm as much as a physical beating.
And months of restraint causes harm just the same.
Victoria Wise, Robert Lation, Lara Foley and Natalie Fields
through their illicit kidnapping conspiracy
are all guilty of causing Staci Horowitz
to suffer extreme psychological damages.
But if they hadn't held Staci for seven months,
we would have two dead babies
instead of those two beautiful seven year old children
we all saw speak at trial.
And that's the heart of this case.
Dana, Nicholas, I'm Marina Durov. I'm a lawyer.
I'm here to talk to you about your biological mum and dad.
Do you understand what I mean by your biological mum and dad?
- No. - I do.
My real mommy and daddy aren't my real mommy and daddy,
other ones are.
Nicholas, now do you understand?
Yes, my parents told me about Staci and James.
That's right.
Staci Horowitz and James Rice are your biological mom and dad.
Your biological dad would like to meet you.
- Would you like that, Dana? - Yes, I would love to meet him.
How about you, Nicholas?
I don't know. Can we talk about something else?
Yes, we can talk about something else for a while.
But we have to talk about your biological daddy again, okay?
Okay, but can we talk about cars?
I love famous cars. What kind of cars do you have?
I have all kinds of cars.
I have a Porsche, a Mercedes, a BMW, a Camaro and a Mustang.
But they are not real cars, they're just little toy cars.
Okay.
These are two wonderful, living human beings.
It's a fact that they would be dead today
if Dr. Wise and the others hadn't helped Staci.
You're just playing on our emotions.
This is what I was talking about before.
Whoever their parents are now, I'm sure,
couldn't imagine life without them.
Just watching them give me chills
thinking they would have been butchered and not here.
This is my son, Steven.
He's 15. Great kid.
You should see him play lacrosse.
He's handsome. Bet he's got a lot of girlfriends, huh?
Oh, yeah. He's constantly on his phone,
texting, tweeting, I don't know what.
He doesn't even know half the kids.
Same with mine. They're only eight and nine.
You know, I can't remember the last time
we had a real conversation.
It's like his phone is surgically attached to his hand.
So, you see where I'm coming from then?
No. Just the opposite.
The fact that my wife chose to have my son
doesn't disallow somebody else from choosing not to.
Steven's a great kid,
but when he was just conceived, even after a couple of months,
he was still just that lump of cells.
So, it would have been all right
if he'd been aborted by your wife?
Abortion is legal. If she'd wanted to have it, she could.
If the man wanted the abortion to happen,
he could have wanted that too.
They could do with it whatever they wanted to.
Now, he's an "it"?
Taking out the humanity makes it easier, doesn't it?
Not guilty.
These two beautiful children deserve to live.
And I feel awful.
You feel awful? Why do you feel awful?
Because I voted not guilty before.
And that no matter how it was done
these beautiful children would not be alive.
I had never thought of it this way at all, but...
their lives are just more important than the law.
And you are right.
Not guilty.
You wanted the expert report charts
on child development in the womb?
Yes, how did you know?
Oh, either I'm a mind reader
or secretly and illegally listening to your deliberations.
Or...
Or I quietly picked up the phone and asked the secretary for them
while we were watching the twins' testimony.
Or that.
I allowed into evidence
the twins custody battle deposition testimony
and the deposition testimony from the real father
for a reason.
And what was that, Your Honor?
I find it irrelevant whether as the defendants are guilty
for kidnapping Staci Horowitz.
I didn't find it irrelevant.
I had another question about the law.
Yes?
Let's say we have the following facts.
Jennifer is pregnant, she wants to keep the baby,
but Kelly is jealous of her and tries to kill the baby
by swinging a baseball bat into her stomach.
Then, Michael, who's in a wheelchair,
shoots and kills Kelly to stop her
from killing the baby that's inside Jennifer's stomach.
Why is Michael in a wheelchair?
I don't know, I just thought it made it more interesting.
- Right, it did. - Yup.
So, how old is the fetus?
Let's say two months.
Ah, fetus is two months old, so Michael shoots and kills Kelly
to prevent her from killing the fetus. So, the question is,
did he act legally in defense of another?
Did he have the right to use lethal force
to save the life of a two-month-old fetus?
- Your Honor, what's the answer? - Go through that file first.
Wow, it's cold in here.
I don't know how anyone can sit through this at trial
and not clearly see a human
growing and changing by the week?
- Looks like a baby. - No question.
My turn. May I have that, please?
What you are calling a baby looks more like a tadpole.
It has no eyes or ears.
It's barely distinguishable as male or female.
So, you think that's more important
than punishing the kidnappers?
Wow, at seven weeks old,
it actually really does look like a baby.
Yes, that's what I mean. Let's pass that around.
Staci Horowitz was kidnapped at about eight weeks.
If you knew, or for the men,
your female significant other had this growing inside you,
would you kill this?
This is clearly a baby.
We've been loosely playing this game that each person get a turn
to make his or her argument.
And, so far, only a few of us have gone and now it's my turn.
Instead of taking my turn, I have a request.
Could you please go to that board
and write down all the points for an acquittal?
Just short, simple recapping of everything
that we've already gone through
that would give a not guilty verdict.
Sure.
And on that board over there,
can someone please write down all the points
that would be for a guilty verdict.
I'll be happy to do that. Thank you.
- Can I go first? - Sure.
I am listing what we have been discussing today, is that right?
Yes.
Staci was kidnapped from an abortion clinic,
that's number one.
And she was held for seven months.
So, it's not like they held her for two weeks, or two days.
It was a very long kidnapping.
The prosecution made that point strongly.
The defendants put her through all kinds of mental torture.
And making her have babies against her will,
and making her believe that she had a chip in her head
that might knock her unconscious.
And in making her actually believe
that she was in hell after she gave birth.
Not to mention the physical pain
she had to suffer to deliver two babies.
You're lucky that's something you'll never have to endure.
What's next?
Miss Horowitz was forced to undergo
medical treatments against her will.
Not just compelled to deliver the babies,
but by having many non-consensual examinations
performed by Dr. Wise.
And how about this?
Staci had a legal right to the abortion
and they had no right to stop her.
Young lady, your case.
Staci Horowitz was carrying two live human beings.
At the time when she was first taken in
by Dr. Wise and the others...
look at this, her fetuses were identifiable as human beings.
The twins who are now seven-years-old
and beautiful would be dead.
No doctor, no scientist, no educator, no one
has truly identified
when a fetus miraculously transforms into a human life.
And after I write everyone's point,
I will add a few of my own.
And now, I'm gonna add my finishing touch.
And how does the law define a human life?
The judge told us that if a person kills
a pregnant woman and the baby in her stomach,
he's guilty of a double murder.
No matter what the age of the fetus is.
So, at any stage of life,
the fetus is considered a human being.
Here are your two lists.
Thank you.
Number six, your turn
I've given my reasons why I changed my vote
and I've said all that I have to say.
So, I think I'll pass on my turn.
Do we really need to play by all these rules
of going in turns for everyone?
- I suppose not. - Then let me say this.
You can debate all you want. Is this a baby? Is this a fetus?
But what about the fact that abortion is legal?
Everyone, abortion is legal.
Roe V. Wade has been the law of the land for 40 years!
Staci Horowitz wanted to have an abortion
and she had a legal right to do so.
These guys are right wing nuts.
They were trying to impose their views
and stop her from having the abortion
I'm a vegetarian but I don't kidnap people
to stop them from eating meat.
You know, that's actually a good point.
I'm an NRA member but I wouldn't kidnap some anti-gun nut
just because I disagree with his beliefs. Like, that's extreme.
It's more than just agreeing or disagreeing.
When a human life is at stake,
it far outweighs everything else, including rights.
Well... I believe in the right to choose.
A woman does not have to have a child
if she doesn't want to.
So, I'm not changing my vote, ever.
They're guilty.
The right to choose is indeed very important.
What about the cases of rape and incest?
Should those women be forced to have those children?
Yes, of course.
It's a terrible experience to suffer rape or incest.
But if a human life is created as a result,
that innocent child should be allowed to live.
You know, I was sort of with you there for a while,
but I don't agree with that at all.
Are you some kind of religious nut
like Dr. Wise and Robert Lation?
I don't know what you mean by "religious nut",
but I do have a very strong faith.
I believe that the Bible is the word of God
and is 100 percent true.
Okay, then show me in the Bible
where it says anything about abortion?
One of the ten commandments. Thou shall not kill.
That's talking about actual acts of murders.
From one person to the other. Real, living people, of course.
Yes, that's exactly what we have with abortion.
While it's true that the word abortion
is never mentioned in the Bible,
there are tons of passages that clearly address
the sanctity of human life.
- Can we get a Bible in here? - Oh, this is a disaster!
Can you also get a copy of Webster's Dictionary,
The Farmers' Almanac,
today's newspaper and a copy of Sports Illustrated?
Swimsuit edition, please.
Hey, yes. This is foreman from the abortion case.
Uh, we need to get a Bible in here.
- What version? - What version?
I don't know, What do you got?
We have King James version.
King James? Cool, that'll work.
Hey, you got any word on the heat yet? It's freezing in here.
Hello?
Steve, old buddy,
looks like I won't be home in time for dinner tonight.
Now, I've been working for weeks
to get this business meeting together.
And now, I'm gonna miss it, thanks to you guys. Thank you.
Whoa! I needed a break.
From The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?
Uh. From my very warm office.
- Who asked for a Bible? - I did.
Are you preaching or deliberating?
We're hoping it'll help with our deliberating.
You know, it looks like you're being really thorough
and thoughtful. That's good. Good.
Do you have the answer to my last legal question?
Sure do.
For starters, Genesis 1:27:
"So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created him he
male and female created he them."
What does this have to do with abortion?
God created humans in his image.
We are all set apart from all of God's creations.
Genesis 1:28: "And God blessed them and God said unto them,
Be fruitful, and multiply,
and replenish the earth, and subdue it
and have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air,
and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Does that sound like God wants us
to kill innocent human beings?
That's totally open to interpretation.
Is that really what you think it means?
I mean, someone else may think something completely different.
That's where faith comes in.
You pray, you study.
You call upon what God helps you to just know to be true.
Great, a sermon.
- Of course, there's more. - But, wait, there's more.
Psalm 22:10:
"I was cast upon thee from the womb
thou art my God from my mother's belly.
God loves us and protects us
from the moment we are conceived.
Obviously, He doesn't want someone He loves to be killed.
And Psalm 139:13-14 says:
"Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise thee; For I am fearfully and wonderfully made."
Faith is manipulation of common sense, my dear.
And even if you want to argue God loves people,
it's not necessarily saying anything about abortion.
Nor about the law we're obligated to follow.
Are you so sure?
We must follow the law of God above all else.
That's if you believe in God.
Who are you to impose your religious views
on us in here in a jury room
where we're supposed to be deliberating a kidnapping case.
We need a separation of Church and hate.
Yes, I have my faith. My total belief in God,
but for those of you who aren't there yet,
what is all-American law based upon?
American law, English law, all law,
they're all first and foremost based on 10 Commandments.
The gentlemen next to you brought up the 10 Commandments.
The Commandment that says "thou shall not kill",
that should be pertinent to everyone in here.
Every translation, every biblical scholar,
anyone who studied ancient texts,
everyone agrees that that means 'thou shall not murder'.
As in killing innocent life.
What's more innocent than an unborn child?
I'm not religious, so I'm going to look at this differently.
I'm not saying that she's right or wrong
about that stuff in the Bible,
but I think we need to look at the hard facts
written on that chart.
Ah, excuse me, everyone, the maintenance staff has gone home.
It's after five, but you're lucky,
I know quite a bit about heat.
This guy's never gonna let us be together, Stevo.
Looks like I'm gonna be stuck here forever.
I think I know what the problem is,
that I have to work under the boiler rooms.
It should be working soon.
So, as I was saying, I think it's really egregious
that they mess with Staci's mind.
It was bad enough that they kidnapped her,
but on top of it to...
to force her to watch those crazy horror films.
They gave her nightmares.
I mean, I thought that was horrible.
I would have really freaked out
if I had to watch things like that.
Now, this will add to the mental torture on the chart.
You have the right to do what you want with your own body.
If you don't want the fetus, abort it.
Abort the fetus if you don't want it.
It's your body, abort it!
It's your body, do what you want with it.
Abort the fetus if you don't want it.
Abort the baby!
Abort the baby.
Abort the baby!
Abort the fetus.
Well, definitely freaky. Still doesn't change my mind.
Seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.
You may not agree with some of their tactics,
but they had a singular purpose.
To save those children.
And they had to use various means to do that.
You know, I'm a pretty rational man,
now I'm getting down to the basics.
Staci Horowitz made a choice not to have a child,
or children as it turns out.
She doesn't want to have a child.
That's a personal choice.
So be it.
It's between her and her doctor.
But it's not that simple.
You're forgetting one important piece,
she had a husband. And he wanted to have the child.
Can we revisit his deposition testimony again?
I'm already there.
Staci had completely deceived me.
When we decided to end our marriage,
I knew she was pregnant.
She knew that I wanted her to keep the child.
I asked her repeatedly. I begged her not to have the abortion.
But then, she just went ahead and did it.
Did Ms. Horowitz state her reason
why she went ahead with the abortion?
She was enacting some kind of revenge against me.
I decided to leave her for another woman,
which I know, of course, hurt her.
She said to me,
"You have put me through so much pain and sadness.
Now it's your turn to feel pain and sadness."
Revenge or not, it was Staci's right to have the abortion.
That's the uncontested law.
I have to say, I feel bad for the guy.
What's worse is he still hasn't met the children.
Go to the part where he talks about the judge
not letting him have custody.
Okay, one second.
None of this is relevant as to whether the defendants
are guilty of kidnapping.
I'm interested in seeing his testimony again.
What's up with you? You just like to make requests
and listen to things without offering any opinions.
I've given a few opinions,
and how I evaluate things is none of your business.
Eh.
Here, I've got it.
And after Staci was released, did you see your babies?
No. I didn't even know she was kidnapped.
I thought she had an abortion and took off.
I found out that I had two infant children
about a month after they let her go.
I... I got a letter from Dr. Victoria Wise
telling me that I had a boy and a girl.
What did you do when found that out?
I went to a lawyer, and I filed for custody
in St. Louis where I live.
But... At first we couldn't even locate where Staci was.
And we had to file all kinds of papers to get her into court.
She was out in Los Angeles
and the courts there made us appear there.
By that time, it was, it was a year later.
Staci had given up my babies for adoption.
And she had a special request.
That my children be split up
and be given different adoptive parents.
And this crazy judge agreed with her.
He gave her what she wanted.
He said that she had gone through a horrific ordeal
and if things had been done correctly under the law
she would have had an abortion.
To rectify things, he said, her wishes should be granted.
So...
now my daughter is somewhere in Oregon
and my son's in Maryland.
Why wouldn't the judge give you custody?
Didn't he believe you're the biological father?
Staci had lied and said she didn't know who the father was.
Okay, so we had a paternity test,
and it proved that I am their father.
But, the judge said it was too late.
That Dana and Nicholas were with their adoptive parents
for too long
and it was in their best interest to stay with them.
So, now I'm still fighting in federal court instead.
I won't stop, I can't.
I don't know how a woman could kill my children,
when I want them to be alive.
And I don't know why I can't have my children now,
my flesh and blood,
when I so desperately want them.
There's no justice in this insane world.
Not for me, and not for them.
I certainly don't agree with everything you're saying,
and I certainly don't agree with everything on that list.
But, I'm changing my vote to not guilty.
You know, if for nothing else,
just so that man can have some kind of justice.
You can't be serious!
What does this have to do with her being kidnapped?
Two wrongs do not make a right!
Perhaps they do.
I suddenly can't help thinking
that these children deserve some justice.
I don't know about the notion that they would be dead.
I still think that they would just not be born
if she had had the abortion.
Oh, with the definitional stuff, it doesn't matter.
They are here now. And whether or not they know it today...
they have been through a terrific ordeal.
I think that they will understand it in time.
Specifically, they'll understand this,
that they would not have been born
if it weren't for the defendants in this case.
That their father wanted them to be born.
And he wanted to care for them
when they were alive and living in this world.
They need us to recognize that.
And we can do that by...
showing that their lives have value.
By rendering a not guilty verdict in this case.
I think a few wrongs here
can make things right for these children.
They deserve... some justice.
Not guilty.
If you want definitions and insanity,
what has happened here is the definition of insanity.
All right, let's just take another vote.
Okay. Now, there's more not guilty at this point.
So, why don't we just start there.
All those in favor of not guilty raise your hands.
So, that's nine for not guilty.
Yes? You have a question?
No. I want to change my vote to not guilty.
You are? For what reason?
Well, just because I think they're not guilty now.
I know why I changed my mind, and I made it clear early on.
I've heard everyone else give their reasons.
I'm curious, what's yours?
Well, I thought about my kids not being born
and it turned me into a wuss.
Yeah, that's funny. You know,
we've all been discussing this with great passion,
and you've been firm on guilty. I think we have a right to know.
I changed my mind. You said I would.
"We have a legal right to vote any way we want."
So, I am voting not guilty,
so we can get out of this damn place,
and I can get to my meeting.
That's no reason to change your vote, man.
Don't you... Don't you have any principles?
Don't you have any values?
Don't you have anything that you believe in?
Were you voting guilty early on just because everyone was?
So that you could leave and go to your precious meeting?
No, no, no and yes.
You may not understand my methods,
but my purpose is singular.
And now, get out of my face.
Guys, that's enough.
That's it?
You're a disgrace.
And yet, the ladies love me.
Don't be bitter, kitty litter.
That leaves just two of you at guilty.
I can't get past what the law is.
It seems to me that you're all engaging in
what is called "jury nullification."
Your voting not guilty is in direct contradiction
to the statute of kidnapping based on rationale
that has nothing to do with the law.
That's not so.
While many of these items are not directly part of the law,
they're all part of its fundamental fabric.
And they're all crucial in determining
whether or not a crime has been committed in this case.
And here the law clearly supports
that a fetus is defined as a human life.
And if it's a human life,
then protecting that human life is surely legal.
I'm surprised at your thinking.
You're young. It's obvious you're well educated.
You probably had a good career going.
Most women in your position are in favor of women's rights.
I am in favor of women's rights, and men's rights,
and children's rights and unborn children's rights.
No one has the right to take the life of an innocent human being,
period.
I'm sure in many abortion cases,
these women don't think of it at all. Not that way.
Many women it's just not the right time for their lives.
Think about it.
Think about this on a real personal level.
Be true to yourself.
What if you had been working hard,
trying to advance in your career,
and then, all of a sudden, you get pregnant?
And being pregnant is going to set you back.
Maybe even cause you to lose your job,
maybe even your entire career.
For many women, it just isn't the right time for them.
So, they want to take the lives of their unborn children
based on convenience?
That's not justifiable.
If you get pregnant, you have to deal with it.
"Deal with it"? It's not that simple.
What about all those poor women who cannot afford
to have a child?
If they do carry through the pregnancy,
the child will be just born into a life of poverty.
Not to mention that all of us,
and the rest of us will be paying for those kids
since the mothers will be on welfare forever.
You cannot take a life based on convenience.
Whether you're a financially stable woman who's educated
and doesn't want to pause her career.
Or a financially distressed mother
who thinks she can't afford to feed another mouth.
Looks like we're at a perpetual stalemate.
Shall we call the judge and tell him we're a hung jury?
I have the answer to your last legal question.
I'll recite your fact pattern from memory.
Jennifer is pregnant, she wants to keep the baby,
but Kelly is jealous of her
and tries to kill the baby inside Jennifer,
by like smashing a baseball bat into her stomach.
And Michael who is in a wheelchair
shoots and kills Kelly
to keep her from killing the baby from inside Jennifer.
And the fetus is two months old.
- That's all correct? - Yes, Your Honor.
Michael's killing of Kelly is not murder,
it is not a homicide at all.
It is a justifiable killing under the self-defense statute
or more specifically under the defense of another statute.
You with me?
You are permitted to use lethal force to defend the life
of a human being.
That's correct.
You're legally permitted to use deadly force against a person
if that person is using deadly force against another person.
So, in your fact pattern,
Michael is legally able to kill Kelly
because Kelly is using deadly force against the fetus...
the baby...
inside Jennifer's belly. See.
So, again, Your Honor, the fetus is defined as a human being.
Now, here's your law.
The one-month old fetus is defined,
under the law, as a human life.
Both in the double murder scenario
and the defense of another scenario.
Now, let's apply this law to the facts
of the Staci Horowitz case.
Dr. Wise and the others held Staci
to save the lives of the two-month old fetuses
that were inside her stomach.
They saved the lives of these two babies just the same as
Michael did when he killed Kelly.
The only difference is that
Dr. Wise and her team didn't kill Staci
to stop the killing of the babies.
They didn't use lethal force at all.
They simply held Staci for seven months until she gave birth.
They allowed Staci to live, just like her babies.
Under the defense of another statute,
their alleged kidnapping was not a crime at all.
It was a justified use of force to defend a human being's life.
And that's the law. We have to acquit.
She's right. Oh, my God.
She's right. She's right.
Oh, my God. Yes, she's right.
I will not acquit! I will not acquit!
- I will not acquit! - Oh, my God.
I will not acquit! I will never acquit!
They're guilty! They're guilty! They are guilty!
I am not guilty!
I will never acquit! They're guilty!
I am not guilty!
They're guilty! Do you hear me? They're guilty!
You're all insane! They're guilty!
- They're guilty! - Oh, my God!
I will not acquit! I will never acquit!
They're guilty! They're guilty!
I'm not guilty. I'm not guilty.
Oh, my God. Oh, my dear God.
Yes.
What the hell is going on here?
Hell is what's going on here.
I aborted Steven before he was born.
And I was the doctor who performed the abortion.
And yesterday, you died of a heart attack.
You were killed in a car crash.
Today is judgment day.
You recognized your wrongs,
and repented in that last moment.
You did not.
And for that, you will never meet Steven.
And you will not be at my side.
Nor the side of my own child.
Welcome to your eternity of solitude.